RE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issueshttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_thread?p_l_id=119785333&threadId=54459622024-03-29T07:50:34Z2024-03-29T07:50:34ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesTobias Käferhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=56768592010-08-27T03:42:33Z2010-08-27T03:42:33Z"Another bites the dust":<br /><a href="http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-3622">LPS-3622</a><br /><br /><br />An as I said in the issue:<br /><blockquote>And I have checked it (this would only need two minutes of your time):<br />The issue is still present in LR 6.0.5.<br /><br />So PLEASE fix this!</blockquote>Tobias Käfer2010-08-27T03:42:33ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesTobias Käferhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=56213262010-08-20T19:00:01Z2010-08-20T19:00:01ZHi Sam,<br /><br />there are huge efforts made in handling issues.<br />In the time between 5.2.3 and 6.x I was wondering about "my" issues, that I filed for 5.2.3.<br />But in the last days you give me hope <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" ><br /><br />Thanks to the whole team!<br /><br />Cheers<br />TobiasTobias Käfer2010-08-20T19:00:01ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSamuel Liuhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=56210982010-08-20T18:30:57Z2010-08-20T18:30:57ZHi Tobias,<br /><br />Sorry about that -- as you can see, we've filed those issues for the 6.1 release <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" > Thanks so much for reporting stuff like this too. The JIRA re-vamping should help us to avoid this in the future. It's still in progress, as is the wiki cleanup -- it's a daily battle but we're getting better!!<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />SamSamuel Liu2010-08-20T18:30:57ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesTobias Käferhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=56091182010-08-19T12:24:30Z2010-08-19T12:24:30ZI have a good example from my last days of experimenting with LR 6.0.5, of how legacy issues might come after you:<br />I submitted this issue, incl. a patch March 2009:<br /><a href="http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-2371">http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-2371</a><br /><br />Now I am facing some issues that force me to change the DLFolderFinderImpl class again:<br /><a href="http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-12136">http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-12136</a><br /><br />So what should I do?<br />Create a patch for each issue than would cleanly apply to trunk?<br />I would have to fix the second one that will be applied, so that it matches the DLFolderFinderImpl.java after applying the first one.<br />But the DLFolderFinderImpl class would still have issues, if not both patches have been applied.<br /><br />I also wrote a thread, that discusses these issues from my point:<br /><a href="http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/5606347"><br />PLEASE don't use DB specific (native) SQL!</a>Tobias Käfer2010-08-19T12:24:30ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSamuel Liuhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55374012010-08-10T19:26:17Z2010-08-10T19:26:17ZThanks Oliver,<br /><br />We'll have a look at this asap <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" > We need more community members like you!<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />SamSamuel Liu2010-08-10T19:26:17ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesOliver Bayerhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55366852010-08-10T18:03:43Z2010-08-10T18:03:43ZHi Sam,<br /><br />thanks for the reply.<br /><br />No problem. I just wanted to show that there are more threads/issues than only the one of Tobias which are lost in the huge amount of tickets.<br /><br />As you can seet in <a href="http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/4351660">my thread</a> I've added a link to this jira ticket: <a href="http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-5549">LPS-5549</a>. Since one or two days this ticket is -finally- worked on.<br /><br />From the answers in my thread you can see that other users also run into this problem and that our fix seems to be valid. After a quick test we can't reproduce the reported issue with the activated staging but maybe you can test it. <br /><br />OliOliver Bayer2010-08-10T18:03:43ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSamuel Liuhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55362532010-08-10T17:03:23Z2010-08-10T17:03:23ZHey thanks Oliver,<br /><br />Yeah do you know if there was an LPS filed for that bug? I would love to give it a quick test for you in 6, to see if someone fixed it. I do believe I've seen tickets about layoutimporter before but I wonder if they were fixed for 6. At any rate if it's still broken that can't be a good thing!<br /><br />We have a new organization coming in the JIRA as you have read, so hopefully that means next time something like this happens and you have a patch, we'll have someone take the patch and put it into the next service pack. It has to be submitted as an LPS though, because as much as we're trying to spend more time on the forums we will still miss things (so many posts)!<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />SamSamuel Liu2010-08-10T17:03:23ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesOliver Bayerhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55324762010-08-10T09:39:03Z2010-08-10T09:39:03ZHi all,<br /><br />thanks to Tobias for creating this thread. I was about creating some similar one but you hit the nail on the head. And thanks to Sam and Jorge for the explanation.<br /><br />It's clear that there are to many tickets to solve at once. But to say it's fixed in trunk isn't...how should I say...the right way to do.<br /><br />One example:<br />I've created a thread about the <a href="http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/4351660">LayoutImporter Bugs</a> at the 7th december of 2009 where Liferay 5.2.3 was the official release. For a short time I was in contact with a liferay dev but since then I don't get any feedback although I linked a jira ticket (a colleague created it) and added a lar file to reproduce the bug.<br /><br />I don't want to wail because we fixed it in our ext so it's not a problem anymore. But for others who also still use 5.2.3 it would be great if it could be fixed because this bug can be a "show stopper" if the import of layouts doesn't work. BTW I don't tested it in the new Liferay 6 release.<br /><br />I'm looking forward to all the improvements to come <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" >.<br /><br />Greets OliOliver Bayer2010-08-10T09:39:03ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesBob Dietrichhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55313422010-08-10T07:22:17Z2010-08-10T07:22:17ZSounds good; I'll definitely try to contribute. And thanks for following step 0 and letting us know the plans ahead of time. <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" >Bob Dietrich2010-08-10T07:22:17ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSamuel Liuhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55289282010-08-09T22:05:15Z2010-08-09T22:05:15ZHi all,<br /><br />We're beginning another change and here it is:<br /><a href="http://www.liferay.com/community/forums/-/message_boards/message/5528889">Liferay Community Project: Tagging the Wiki</a><br /><br />We're trying real hard to improve the documentation here and under everyone here's recommendation, we're reaching out to the community and asking for help: hopefully the wiki is going to see drastic improvements in coming days. Stay tuned <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" ><br /><br />Warm regards,<br />SamSamuel Liu2010-08-09T22:05:15ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesBob Dietrichhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55126592010-08-06T15:05:48Z2010-08-06T15:05:48ZJorge,<br />Thanks for taking the time to comment on this issue. I'm sure you have plenty on your plate.<br /><br />I understand triage is difficult given the amount of issues in JIRA, and especially since they've been allowed to accumulate. It was time to get out of the way of the avalanche or be crushed. Understandable. I just took a look at what has been submitted since July 1 of last year: 7854 and counting (all status). When I did an unscientific random sampling (click next page and look at whatever appears under the mouse), a surprisingly high number were detailed with stack dumps and patches. The least detailed seemed to be filed by Liferay developers, which is par for the course ("I know what I mean").<br /><br />I'd like to comment on your three process points, but first I want to make sure that you and everyone else at Liferay understand these are suggestions for improvement to help you and those of us outside of Liferay, not criticism because I'm having a bad day. I wouldn't waste my time if I thought Liferay wasn't something great that was worth improving.<br /><br />So on to the process you stated:<br /><br />[indent]Step 0: Before you even start, I suggest announcing your intentions and why you're taking that route. This whole thread seems to have originated because a user was surprised at this action (as was I). People often react emotionally when surprised, and from a practical standpoint announcing intentions allow people to get used to the idea and allows you to tweak your process to address objections.[/indent]<ul><br /><br /><li>As a few of us have pointed out, triage is hard when you have high volume. But see item 3.</li><li>Unfortunately, closing <strong>all</strong> others (emphasis mine) is a bit radical and probably doesn't really help you in the long run. See "squeaky wheel" above for starters. You could have instead assigned them to a "we're probably not going to do anything" category, let people know what to do if they feel strongly about an issue, and then closed these issues after a couple of weeks have elapsed. </li><li>Good recognition, and I think the crux of the matter. The issues became overwhelming because they were <em>allowed</em> to become overwhelming. If instead of dealing with the 7854 issues once a year, dealing with 157 issues once a week over 50 weeks is a lot more manageable. Understood this is a gross simplification with no real knowledge of how Liferay operates.</li></ul>Lastly, what I'd really like to see is Liferay make a <strong>real effort</strong> to build culture and processes that support what we're all saying. Frankly, I've seen this kind of issue happen before in the last five years that I've been dealing with Liferay. Things get better for a while, but then people get busy or distracted, and pretty soon the company is behaving the same way it did before the blowup.<br /><br />This is an opportunity for real and lasting change. Are you and Liferay going to take it?Bob Dietrich2010-08-06T15:05:48ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesTobias Käferhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55073542010-08-06T04:18:36Z2010-08-06T04:18:36ZFirst of all thank you Jorge and Samuel for explaining some things.<br />Just keep talking to us! Communication helps to find solutions ;)<br /><br />I understand the problems you are facing. In our company are developing software, that has its root in 1980-1983. So I know how hard it can be to track issues, bugs, proposals etc.<br />Legacy issues are very hard to understand and to fix, but if you don't notice (or ignore) them, they might follow you like Freddy Kruger in a nightmare (on Elmstreet).<br /><br />But I have to state: Things have improved in the last days (after I started this thread - coincidence?). All of my upgrade related issues have been taking into notice! Thank you Liferay for this effort!<br /><br />But lets get back to the Freddy Kruger: I started <a href="http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-8435">this issue</a> in March 2009. It is now been handled, but as far as I know right now: I don't have the database anymore, that caused this problem. <br />Is it my fault? Maybe to a certain degree (It would have been easier, if this issue has been noticed by Liferay in March, April or May 2009).<br /><br /><div class="quote-title">Jorge Ferrer:</div><blockquote>Thanks again for caring, not only to create tickets, but also to complain when we do things wrong.</blockquote><br />Thank you for recognizing our needs. And thank you for taking them serious.<br />I don't think you did something "wrong". It was just the lack of information that was bothering me.<br />But I think it will all be better (I firmly believe it).<br /><br />Keep it up! Finally Liferay Portal is a software, it love to work with <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" >Tobias Käfer2010-08-06T04:18:36ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesShagul Khajamohideenhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55041212010-08-05T19:04:35Z2010-08-05T19:04:35ZThanks Sam, Jorge and Liferay team for all the attention and efforts towards improving the process of development/support. As it has come up through the discussion, we need to encourage the community to report issues that can be reproduced ( takes a good amount of time from community and Liferay staff) and use the contribution process. Again as others have mentioned we need a better way to manage the contributions.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />ShagulShagul Khajamohideen2010-08-05T19:04:35ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesJorge Ferrerhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55037702010-08-05T18:10:53Z2010-08-05T18:10:53ZHey guys,<br /><br />Sam just sent me a link to this thread. I'm sorry that I didn't notice it before, but I'm afraid I'm not able to keep up to date with all the threads in the Development category any more. I am subscribed to the "Liferay's community" category though, so please use feel free to use it in the future for any concern regarding the community and tools like JIRA, forums, wiki, ...<br /><br />Regarding the topic at hand, Sam has already explained very well what our goals have been but I wanted to chime in and say sorry for any frustration that it may have caused to you. For more than a year we've all been concerned with the fact that we had an explosion of JIRA tickets created by community members and we just didn't have enough resources to even determine if they made any sense. Many of them were just questions or very specific problems, but there were also some others which were very valuable and they were getting missed in the avalanche.<br /><br />As the company has kept growing we now assigned more people to take care of these issues but the fact that there were so many open tickets made it a daunting task. So we decided to follow a process that while had some painful parts we thought it would be good at the end. The process has been:<br /><ul><li> Do a very quick review of all open tickets and assign to a developer those that look interesting. This review couldn't be thorough because there were so many, but we were expecting to identify a good percentage of the most important. In fact, we are doing a second phase of this in which we are taking the suggestions for improvements and prioritizing them to make sure they are not missed.</li><li> Close all others with a message asking the developer to reopen it or comment on it if this was really an open issue. We knew this would cause some pain to people like you but we hoped that you would understand it as a way to improve the process going forward.</li><li> Have some people monitoring periodically so that they don't accumulate again and we don't need to follow a painful process again.</li></ul><br /><br />We were scared to follow this process and thought about it for a long time, but we couldn't think of a better alternative. I hope that in a short time we'll see good results from it.<br /><br />Thanks again for caring, not only to create tickets, but also to complain when we do things wrong.Jorge Ferrer2010-08-05T18:10:53ZMoved to the Community categoryJorge Ferrerhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55035082010-08-05T17:52:01Z2010-08-05T17:52:01ZHey guys, quick note to let you know that I moved this issue to the "Liferay's Community" category since that's what this discussion is about and so that it's read by all of us subscribed to that category.Jorge Ferrer2010-08-05T17:52:01ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSzymon Gołębiewskihttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55028302010-08-05T16:49:14Z2010-08-05T16:49:14Z<div class="quote-title">Samuel Liu:</div><blockquote>When we redo the wiki, we should really add this information, no doubt. In fact, when I get a chance I'll begin drafting something like this for the current wiki.<br /></blockquote><br /><br />And when you do that just leave a message on this thread so we could read it and test the new procedure with our company testers <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" >Szymon Gołębiewski2010-08-05T16:49:14ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSamuel Liuhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=55027492010-08-05T16:40:09Z2010-08-05T16:40:09ZThanks Simon,<br /><br />This does seem reasonable. Hopefully I can get the right people to read this thread so that we can make appropriate changes. When we redo the wiki, we should really add this information, no doubt. In fact, when I get a chance I'll begin drafting something like this for the current wiki.<br /><br />This means a lot to us, thanks very much for your suggestion!<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />SamSamuel Liu2010-08-05T16:40:09ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSzymon Gołębiewskihttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=54980432010-08-05T08:00:44Z2010-08-05T08:00:44Z<div class="quote-title">Samuel Liu:</div><blockquote>Hi all,<br /><br />Just got an update -- the idea behind the closing inactive issues is that if the issue is really a problem, it will get reopened by its creator or another will be created. If it is truly inactive it will stay closed, which makes life easier for the bug fixers.<br /><br />That does seem somewhat logical, but I wonder if there's a better way to approach it because I bet in some cases (e.g. Tobias's bug seems to be an upgrade bug, and I'm talking to someone about it right now) it is irksome that the ticket not only hasn't been looked at but now is closed because it hasn't been looked at in so long! And real bugs might get obscured this way.<br /><br />Suggestions anyone?<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />Sam</blockquote><br /><br />Sam,<br /><br />In our company we also have issue reporting system. There is no such thing as "old bug" - there can be a bug in system or it has been fixed (direct or indirect). The best way to tell that is to retest that functionality. I saw there are many issues on Liferay JIRA that consist of two senteces (...it doesn't work). If you want to retest old bug and close it or move to next sprint you have to now exact what is the problem, on what system configuration it appears and what are the steps to reproduce it. I think it would be nice to create wiki article with template for submitting bug. <br /><br />Example template could look something like this:<br /><br />OS: windows/linux/solaris<br />App server: tomcat/glasfish<br />Database: Postgres/mysql<br />Liferay version with build (taken from console ->see attachment console.png): 6.0.5 CE build 6005<br />Bug is related to: Web content portlet doesn't show web content from choosen community<br />How to replicate bug:<br />1. Login to liferay as admin user<br />2. Add Web content portlet on any page<br />3. In portlet configuration choose community<br />4. Save configuration<br />5. Reload page<br />6. Web content will reload but you will see "you don't have privileges to view this content" text (this is a bug) <br /><br /><br />This way Liferay staff will get detailed issue info so there should be no need for "closing old issues". In case when user submits "one-liner" just reject this issue with info poiting to "issue template". This way users will learn very quick how should they submit issues on JIRA. This method is working in our company with no problem and I think it can be adapted to Liferay organization.<br /><br />Cheers.<br />SzymonSzymon Gołębiewski2010-08-05T08:00:44ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issuesSamuel Liuhttps://liferay.dev/en/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=119785333&messageId=54977192010-08-05T07:12:45Z2010-08-05T07:12:45ZHey Fastbob,<br /><br />Certainly that sounds excellent -- I'll relay that to the people in charge tomorrow when I meet with them. Thanks for the encouragement too <img alt="emoticon" src="@theme_images_path@/emoticons/happy.gif" > Just trying to do the right thing!<br /><br />Warm regards,<br />SamSamuel Liu2010-08-05T07:12:45ZRE: PLEASE don't close "Inactive" issues