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7.2 General observations
Did a bit of testing this weekend and I'd like to share my opinion:
1) Pages and Navigation
I still hate it. It makes me angry to use it. It has improved somewhat, but I don't like the general usability of the new system. It feels really awkward and several of the fixes (hide page in default nav) feel like band-aid to me. Well, I wrote a lot about my detailed concerns before, so I don't feel the need to reiterate them here. Just one thing:
Please, please, bring back some kind of quick navigation. It is superannoying now to jump to a page. In 7.0 we had that nice tree in the product menu. Make it optional, add a configurable navigation menu to it, add a floating navigation thingy. Whatever the implementation, it would be really helpful.
Edit: Just saw https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-90363
2) Content/Fragment pages
I didn't do a lot of testing, but it looks nice! Really nice. It needs some polishing here and there, but it's really nice to see that things come together.
3) Speed
In general, the whole thing (front and backend) feels a lot snappier. I didn't measure anything, so that's just an impression.
4) Webcontent editor page
Note: Not talking about alloyeditor here! The page is very nice, looks a lot cleaner than before. I'd like to repeat a feature requests here:
Please add a style class field to structures. It would be very helpful were I able to style the structure fields in the webcontent editor.
5) Share feature
Very nice. A much appreciated feature.
6) Forms
I hate to say it, but they are still not usable for me. Maybe I am missing something, but every time I am asked by a customer about forms and he describes his requirements, something is missing.
The last three were:
- We need to be able to set a minimum and a maximum for a number field (nope, you can't, you can set a min or a max, but not both)
- The text fields have to have a configurable maximum length
- Upload file option for guests. After trying the upload field I was (and still am) banging my head to the wall. Thumps down!
I get it, forms are superhard. We have implemented our fair share and have actually created our own simple form engine (there the form creator can specify a folder, where the files are uploaded, the owner is always a dedicated form user) and it was a ton of work and has in general a lot less features than your implementation. So, I really appreciate your work!
Edit: Just saw https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-89349 and commented there.
Feature request:
Please allow us to add our own styleclasses and javascript to each field. It would be tremendously helpful.
7) Changelists
Not a lot to see here. Will they be added in one of the next alphas?
A general note:
I didn't like 7.1 and we have used it for just one customer so far. In hindsight it would have been better to stay on 7.0. But 7.2 looks great.
1) Pages and Navigation
I still hate it. It makes me angry to use it. It has improved somewhat, but I don't like the general usability of the new system. It feels really awkward and several of the fixes (hide page in default nav) feel like band-aid to me. Well, I wrote a lot about my detailed concerns before, so I don't feel the need to reiterate them here. Just one thing:
Please, please, bring back some kind of quick navigation. It is superannoying now to jump to a page. In 7.0 we had that nice tree in the product menu. Make it optional, add a configurable navigation menu to it, add a floating navigation thingy. Whatever the implementation, it would be really helpful.
Edit: Just saw https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-90363
2) Content/Fragment pages
I didn't do a lot of testing, but it looks nice! Really nice. It needs some polishing here and there, but it's really nice to see that things come together.
3) Speed
In general, the whole thing (front and backend) feels a lot snappier. I didn't measure anything, so that's just an impression.
4) Webcontent editor page
Note: Not talking about alloyeditor here! The page is very nice, looks a lot cleaner than before. I'd like to repeat a feature requests here:
Please add a style class field to structures. It would be very helpful were I able to style the structure fields in the webcontent editor.
5) Share feature
Very nice. A much appreciated feature.
6) Forms
I hate to say it, but they are still not usable for me. Maybe I am missing something, but every time I am asked by a customer about forms and he describes his requirements, something is missing.
The last three were:
- We need to be able to set a minimum and a maximum for a number field (nope, you can't, you can set a min or a max, but not both)
- The text fields have to have a configurable maximum length
- Upload file option for guests. After trying the upload field I was (and still am) banging my head to the wall. Thumps down!
I get it, forms are superhard. We have implemented our fair share and have actually created our own simple form engine (there the form creator can specify a folder, where the files are uploaded, the owner is always a dedicated form user) and it was a ton of work and has in general a lot less features than your implementation. So, I really appreciate your work!
Edit: Just saw https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-89349 and commented there.
Feature request:
Please allow us to add our own styleclasses and javascript to each field. It would be tremendously helpful.
7) Changelists
Not a lot to see here. Will they be added in one of the next alphas?
A general note:
I didn't like 7.1 and we have used it for just one customer so far. In hindsight it would have been better to stay on 7.0. But 7.2 looks great.
"Please, please, bring back some kind of quick navigation. It is superannoying now to jump to a page. In 7.0 we had that nice tree in the product menu."
Totally agree. LPS-90363 is nice, but is not a tree menu (sometimes also a user may not know the title of a page to even know what to search for). A search feature can't replace a navigation menu.
What we have to focus on here, is yes we agree there were issues with the tree navigation for managing pages, for adding pages, moving them around etc etc. The miller columns are great for this but what has been lost is an easy way to navigate around a blueprint (a sitemap) of the public and private pages. That's what most users want, a navigation menu. That's what we are asking for to be restored. There might be a misunderstanding that we want everything back the way it was. That's not the case.
The miller columns is not a heiracy navigation menu. We just want a navigation menu. The whole concept of navigation menus has been confused. Look at this from a site admin's perspective and if needed I can totally forward on concerns from hundreds of site admins. Please restore it and call it something like "Sitemap" or "Page Switcher "in the product menu, but don't make users search for page titles.
Totally agree. LPS-90363 is nice, but is not a tree menu (sometimes also a user may not know the title of a page to even know what to search for). A search feature can't replace a navigation menu.
What we have to focus on here, is yes we agree there were issues with the tree navigation for managing pages, for adding pages, moving them around etc etc. The miller columns are great for this but what has been lost is an easy way to navigate around a blueprint (a sitemap) of the public and private pages. That's what most users want, a navigation menu. That's what we are asking for to be restored. There might be a misunderstanding that we want everything back the way it was. That's not the case.
The miller columns is not a heiracy navigation menu. We just want a navigation menu. The whole concept of navigation menus has been confused. Look at this from a site admin's perspective and if needed I can totally forward on concerns from hundreds of site admins. Please restore it and call it something like "Sitemap" or "Page Switcher "in the product menu, but don't make users search for page titles.
Searching is awful. So if "searching for pages" now to navigate to them is the way it's being done and the search returns "Home" and "Home" ... how would users know which one was public and which was private? If there were several "overview" pages in their site, when searching for them and being presented with 6 "overview pages" how would they know which one was the correct one to navigate to? And why would a user search for a page to navigate to it, now having to use the keyboard, when previous they only had to click a menu?
Take the tree in 7.0, there were two "tabs" for this that when clicking private pages the tree switched and allowed users to be constantly in the private section of their site ... all of that has been lost.
The discussion here was very valuable ... If we can get the tree back in 7.2 users upgrading from 7.0 to 7.2 won't have to wait till 7.5 to get the tree menu back. It really is that big of a deal. Please don't take it away put it back take it away put it back, let's keep something so vital as navigation stable and consistent!
Take the tree in 7.0, there were two "tabs" for this that when clicking private pages the tree switched and allowed users to be constantly in the private section of their site ... all of that has been lost.
The discussion here was very valuable ... If we can get the tree back in 7.2 users upgrading from 7.0 to 7.2 won't have to wait till 7.5 to get the tree menu back. It really is that big of a deal. Please don't take it away put it back take it away put it back, let's keep something so vital as navigation stable and consistent!
Hey Lee, Christoph,
We are looking into new tree components that we can reuse to solve the need for site admins to browse the site's pages and go to them. The idea would be to show the tree in a new panel in the left, instead of integrating it with the product menu.
Unfortunately, it's going to be hard to finish it on time for 7.2 though
We are looking into new tree components that we can reuse to solve the need for site admins to browse the site's pages and go to them. The idea would be to show the tree in a new panel in the left, instead of integrating it with the product menu.
Unfortunately, it's going to be hard to finish it on time for 7.2 though
Hi Jorge,
This is a critical issue and we as the community need to help Liferay overcome these difficulties so that Liferay can provide a product that 7.0 users won't hate. It's not the case of we're getting answers we don't like, this is a serious issue that we need to turn around and Liferay have had one year already to do so.
Let us help overcome the over thinking that might be occuring here. Step back, zen mode this and not overthink.
I have an idea that uses Lexicon 2.0
Please check it out
https://community.liferay.com/forums/-/message_boards/message/112680161
This is a critical issue and we as the community need to help Liferay overcome these difficulties so that Liferay can provide a product that 7.0 users won't hate. It's not the case of we're getting answers we don't like, this is a serious issue that we need to turn around and Liferay have had one year already to do so.
Let us help overcome the over thinking that might be occuring here. Step back, zen mode this and not overthink.
I have an idea that uses Lexicon 2.0
Please check it out
https://community.liferay.com/forums/-/message_boards/message/112680161
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