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RE: In Content Pages, Bring In The Content Drag / Drop
So we know Liferay is getting harder to use. I honestly feel it's because nice shortcuts we have currently are being ignored / undervalued.
One of these really nice shortcuts is on a widget page, the add menu allows to drag content to a page not just a widget. So Widgets have been provided in content pages, but really the huge value add is to bring in the content drag drop also. For example if you have an asset publisher already configured in a widget page, there's no way to bring it in to a content page via that right side "add menu". The content drag drop is also helpful for re-using content widgets across different pages without having to go "select web content" it's right there on the right side add menu so just drag and drop. These are really nice features that say if you just removed widget pages will be lost forever!
Configuration templates also seem to be missing from content pages. I created a basic web content on a widget page with a set decorator and some other configurations, saved that as a configuration template. It's there in the add menu on a widget page but then missing from a content page widget selector. Configuration templates allow you as a content creator to reduce the repetitive nature of configuring widgets.
Not being critical for no reason, but I think these useful features are being ignored and overall the product is getting harder to use. These useful features make Liferay easier to use. I ran my PA through the new way of creating web content in a content page and before it would be 5 steps, now it's 20 and even though I've been looking at this for years, I'm still confused on how to explain the new way to people.
One of these really nice shortcuts is on a widget page, the add menu allows to drag content to a page not just a widget. So Widgets have been provided in content pages, but really the huge value add is to bring in the content drag drop also. For example if you have an asset publisher already configured in a widget page, there's no way to bring it in to a content page via that right side "add menu". The content drag drop is also helpful for re-using content widgets across different pages without having to go "select web content" it's right there on the right side add menu so just drag and drop. These are really nice features that say if you just removed widget pages will be lost forever!
Configuration templates also seem to be missing from content pages. I created a basic web content on a widget page with a set decorator and some other configurations, saved that as a configuration template. It's there in the add menu on a widget page but then missing from a content page widget selector. Configuration templates allow you as a content creator to reduce the repetitive nature of configuring widgets.
Not being critical for no reason, but I think these useful features are being ignored and overall the product is getting harder to use. These useful features make Liferay easier to use. I ran my PA through the new way of creating web content in a content page and before it would be 5 steps, now it's 20 and even though I've been looking at this for years, I'm still confused on how to explain the new way to people.
Hey Lee,As always, we appreciate your feedback. All of the features you mention are being taken into consideration. The challenge that we are working hard to solve is how to bring the many features that have been added over the years to Widget Pages in such a way that it's easier to find and use for a wider range of users. We understand for some current users which have already found the way to use the features as they were before, this process might not seem clear. My advice for cases like yours is to keep using Widget Pages, while keeping an eye on the evolution of Content Pages and other new features. That way, once they are ready to cover all your use cases you will be able to benefit from its new features.Regarding editing of content from Content Pages, it's one of the features that we are releasing very soon. Being able to add content from those pages too. And we've done it in such a way that it solves the issues that other people have been reporting with the way it's done in Widget pages (such as avoiding "interferences" while in view mode).
We are listening to a lot of feedback from many different types of users and very diverse use cases and working on ways to make the best product possible for as many as possible. I'm personally very happy with the result so far and the pace forward. Nevertheless, I also understand it may seem differently for those very used to the traditional way. That's why we are being very careful to also keep the previous way of doing things as long as needed (and learn from mistakes when we make them), or even for ever.
We are listening to a lot of feedback from many different types of users and very diverse use cases and working on ways to make the best product possible for as many as possible. I'm personally very happy with the result so far and the pace forward. Nevertheless, I also understand it may seem differently for those very used to the traditional way. That's why we are being very careful to also keep the previous way of doing things as long as needed (and learn from mistakes when we make them), or even for ever.
That makes a lot of sense, trouble is I can't control what my users do. We have some adventurous users who will use the content pages and then bug me and then I have to bug you guys.
It raises the point of feature flags. So if Content Pages aren't there yet ... how do we disable the feature? Same with Miller columns, how would we stop our users using it until it was done and allow them to continue the old way while we gradually ease them into the new?
I personally can wipe out content pages from being seen by users in the UI in the admin theme, but it would be nice if Liferay could stop sending out incomplete features by default. Like if we can enroll our site admins in the "modern UI" while allowing other site admins to stick with a "Classic UI". We're going to be facing some serious change shock soon in our site admin community. I can't stop them getting into the weeds and asking the same questions I already asked of you guys last year.
With a feature flag and enrollment of users, we could allow our interested site admins beta test, while allowing everyone else to be unaware and thus not as confused and less likely to fall into a trap of using content pages when they shouldn't.
And yeah it maybe done in 7.4, which is nice but we're facing a real danger that we will be on 7.2 for the next 4 years. and 7.2 is hard to use. 7.3 might be a little bit easier and if we continue to take steps back out of the process 7.4 will be easier to use again. But we'd still be stuck on 7.2.
It raises the point of feature flags. So if Content Pages aren't there yet ... how do we disable the feature? Same with Miller columns, how would we stop our users using it until it was done and allow them to continue the old way while we gradually ease them into the new?
I personally can wipe out content pages from being seen by users in the UI in the admin theme, but it would be nice if Liferay could stop sending out incomplete features by default. Like if we can enroll our site admins in the "modern UI" while allowing other site admins to stick with a "Classic UI". We're going to be facing some serious change shock soon in our site admin community. I can't stop them getting into the weeds and asking the same questions I already asked of you guys last year.
With a feature flag and enrollment of users, we could allow our interested site admins beta test, while allowing everyone else to be unaware and thus not as confused and less likely to fall into a trap of using content pages when they shouldn't.
And yeah it maybe done in 7.4, which is nice but we're facing a real danger that we will be on 7.2 for the next 4 years. and 7.2 is hard to use. 7.3 might be a little bit easier and if we continue to take steps back out of the process 7.4 will be easier to use again. But we'd still be stuck on 7.2.
The question is: When is a feature finished? When is it "there"?
For me, content pages are already very useful. There are limitations (especially in 7.2) and there's several things that could be better, but as far as I can tell, we can live with it. I don't think that the effort to have two paths through the software and disable one of them later on would be worth it. I mean, if you have a "modern UI" and a "Classic UI", you have to test both. And apply bugfixes to both. It easily doubles the effort.
But aside from that, a "Beta" feature enrollment would be interesting. I usually just download Master (it's faster than building it myself) and try some things, but maybe Liferay could provide monthly(?) beta build with some highlighted features. It would lead to faster feedback.
Liferay has already sped up the release process (it was 2 years, 1 year for 7.1 and 7.2; with 7.3 they are pretty close to a 6 month cycle). We get features faster but also the pace of change has been stepped up a notch. It will be interesting to see, how it works out. It will allow Liferay to update their software more often but will also increase the upgrade pressure on us guys in the trenches.
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About Upgrading:
In my experience, upgrading has become a lot smoother. Upgrading bootstrap will probably stay a hassle (we actually already plan to upgrade a system from 7.0 to 7.3 later this year), but since bootstrap 5 will only be released late 2020 it shouldn't be that much of a problem to upgrade to at least 7.4, maybe even 7.5 later on. Maybe you simply could adapt yourself and change faster too?
For me, content pages are already very useful. There are limitations (especially in 7.2) and there's several things that could be better, but as far as I can tell, we can live with it. I don't think that the effort to have two paths through the software and disable one of them later on would be worth it. I mean, if you have a "modern UI" and a "Classic UI", you have to test both. And apply bugfixes to both. It easily doubles the effort.
But aside from that, a "Beta" feature enrollment would be interesting. I usually just download Master (it's faster than building it myself) and try some things, but maybe Liferay could provide monthly(?) beta build with some highlighted features. It would lead to faster feedback.
Liferay has already sped up the release process (it was 2 years, 1 year for 7.1 and 7.2; with 7.3 they are pretty close to a 6 month cycle). We get features faster but also the pace of change has been stepped up a notch. It will be interesting to see, how it works out. It will allow Liferay to update their software more often but will also increase the upgrade pressure on us guys in the trenches.
---
About Upgrading:
In my experience, upgrading has become a lot smoother. Upgrading bootstrap will probably stay a hassle (we actually already plan to upgrade a system from 7.0 to 7.3 later this year), but since bootstrap 5 will only be released late 2020 it shouldn't be that much of a problem to upgrade to at least 7.4, maybe even 7.5 later on. Maybe you simply could adapt yourself and change faster too?
Bootstrap LOL. I'm having flashbacks to battles of yesterday.
Cards are my biggest issue at the moment whatever the columns in cards is doing I have no idea but my content that went all the way across a card now wraps showing each word squished into a 10px column. Add it to the list of things I need to fix.
One does not simply just upgrade Liferay. Bonkers. It's literally bonkers. Put it on the list I'll get around to bootstrap eventually.
Cards are my biggest issue at the moment whatever the columns in cards is doing I have no idea but my content that went all the way across a card now wraps showing each word squished into a 10px column. Add it to the list of things I need to fix.
One does not simply just upgrade Liferay. Bonkers. It's literally bonkers. Put it on the list I'll get around to bootstrap eventually.
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