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RE: Missing "Navigation" section in product menu
This is a huge issue that is preventing us from planning an upgrade path beyond 7.0.
DXP introduced for site admins a very easy to use hierarchy of all pages in a site. Very much like a site map and to drag and drop pages around the use of the "Expand Area" link was very helpful. 7.1 removed this navigation and placed a radically different UI into the newly created "Build" menu item. Which works well for building pages and kinda ok for creating site IA (information architecture) ... but for navigating around very large navigation "tree's" a tree UI is the most useful UI approach to take.
Expected
Both miller columns and tree navigation to be available. Keeping the "Build" section and restoring the now lost "Navigate" menu item.
Actual
The UX of navigating has been thrown a pool of quicksand and users have been told to "deal with it". Navigating around a site for a site admin has become impossible at worst and not a very nice or productive experience at best. The term "build" to navigate a site makes no sense on a user understanding level and now the user must hunt for something that was immediately available. To navigate the site a site admin would expect to go to the "Navigate" menu to switch pages.
DXP introduced for site admins a very easy to use hierarchy of all pages in a site. Very much like a site map and to drag and drop pages around the use of the "Expand Area" link was very helpful. 7.1 removed this navigation and placed a radically different UI into the newly created "Build" menu item. Which works well for building pages and kinda ok for creating site IA (information architecture) ... but for navigating around very large navigation "tree's" a tree UI is the most useful UI approach to take.
Expected
Both miller columns and tree navigation to be available. Keeping the "Build" section and restoring the now lost "Navigate" menu item.
Actual
The UX of navigating has been thrown a pool of quicksand and users have been told to "deal with it". Navigating around a site for a site admin has become impossible at worst and not a very nice or productive experience at best. The term "build" to navigate a site makes no sense on a user understanding level and now the user must hunt for something that was immediately available. To navigate the site a site admin would expect to go to the "Navigate" menu to switch pages.
I believe changes are coming for 7.2 to help address this.
I would encourage you to participate in the beta program to determine if the changes are enough to help fulfil your needs.
I would encourage you to participate in the beta program to determine if the changes are enough to help fulfil your needs.
The changes are looking like they are not going to replace the lost functionality. This functionality urgently needs putting back, even if the functionality is without drag and drop and ellipsis menus. Site admins must have a navigation tree so that they can easily navigate their sites.
https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-90363
This solution doesn't equal what is lost currently.
https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-90363
This solution doesn't equal what is lost currently.
Litterally this is a cry for help ... The miller columns can be changed to a table display style, table view is even less useful for navigation. Why not Tree instead?
Also there's a severe issue with LPS-90363
That functionaity is already there, users can search for pages already in the table display style.
Plant trees!
Also there's a severe issue with LPS-90363
That functionaity is already there, users can search for pages already in the table display style.
Plant trees!
Anyone who didn't use 7.0 ... the site admin expereince while not perfect did resemble web site navigation.
- Top
-- Parent
--- Child
---- Child Child
- Top
-- Parent
--- Child
---- Child Child
Lee JordanJust for anyone reading here: There's a whole bunch of tickets (browse the related ones as well) with regards to the 7.1 and future page navigation. Lee, you're part of them, so you already know. I'm posting for the benefit of other readers here.
Anyone who didn't use 7.0 ... the site admin expereince while not perfect did resemble web site navigation.
Note that some of the 7.2 changes have been backported to DXP 7.1 and CE 7.1 (I believe starting at DXP FP5 and CE GA3, but don't quote me on the numbers here)
The frustrating part about this is rather than put the navigation back (the navigation is still currently missing) there are all sorts of solutions being created to produce something that doesn't work as well as what was in 7.0.
The miller columns are not navigation for the site admin, the miller columns are a way to build new pages and configure existing pages (a management section) but as for navigation ... what's in the build section is not a "navigation menu". There currently exists no site navigation for site admins and there is currently no concensus that the (product menu) navigation, the thing under the arrow on the left, needs to be restored to how it was.
Alll that is being asked is to restore the "Navigation" item in the product menu and it would be fine to call it something like "Site Map" or "Page Navigator" to differentiate it from the customizable "Navigation Menus". What we (the community) are getting from liferay is ... "No you put the navigation menu back", we're also being told it is easy for us to do but very hard for Liferay to do ... and there's no tutorial explaining how to put the navigation back into the product. So there's a disconnect somewhere if it's hard for the product owners to do but very easy for community members.
The miller columns are not navigation for the site admin, the miller columns are a way to build new pages and configure existing pages (a management section) but as for navigation ... what's in the build section is not a "navigation menu". There currently exists no site navigation for site admins and there is currently no concensus that the (product menu) navigation, the thing under the arrow on the left, needs to be restored to how it was.
Alll that is being asked is to restore the "Navigation" item in the product menu and it would be fine to call it something like "Site Map" or "Page Navigator" to differentiate it from the customizable "Navigation Menus". What we (the community) are getting from liferay is ... "No you put the navigation menu back", we're also being told it is easy for us to do but very hard for Liferay to do ... and there's no tutorial explaining how to put the navigation back into the product. So there's a disconnect somewhere if it's hard for the product owners to do but very easy for community members.
The problem with that is the introduction of two completely different code bases to effectively support two UIs. I believe the general goal is to allow for a single, unified presentation.
Which is fine but if taking a step back for just a second and thinking about this ... The miller columns are not a navigation menu and the actual navigation menu has been deleted. Nobody wants two managment UI's but the navigation menu has been taken away and the column UI is not a page navigation menu.
#ZenMode Step away and look at it from a distance ... how do users quickly navigate through their sites now?
#ZenMode Step away and look at it from a distance ... how do users quickly navigate through their sites now?
Hey Lee,
I appreciate that you are an active community member and I value your ideas, including this one.
I have answered it in several JIRA tickets, forum posts, and Slack messages. I understand that you don't like the answer we are giving you, however I would appreciate if you could stop posting the same request again and again in more and more places. It really just creates confusion and makes people waste their time discussing the exact same pros and cons over and over.
If you want to add more weight to your request, the proper way is to point people to your feature request (https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-83639) and encourage them to vote for it. Even better, ask them to add comments explaining how they were using the tree in the product menu, with an emphasis on their underlying need. That would be of help and may allow us to find an alternative solution for them.
I appreciate that you are an active community member and I value your ideas, including this one.
I have answered it in several JIRA tickets, forum posts, and Slack messages. I understand that you don't like the answer we are giving you, however I would appreciate if you could stop posting the same request again and again in more and more places. It really just creates confusion and makes people waste their time discussing the exact same pros and cons over and over.
If you want to add more weight to your request, the proper way is to point people to your feature request (https://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-83639) and encourage them to vote for it. Even better, ask them to add comments explaining how they were using the tree in the product menu, with an emphasis on their underlying need. That would be of help and may allow us to find an alternative solution for them.
Thank you. Honestly the changes in the build section are coming along really well and a lot of pain points are being addressed.
It's important to know this issue was raised by other community members at the 7.1 beta, I just echo the same concerns which I'm sure will come up time and time again.
Ultimately we're here to please site administrators on this issue not community members. The tree navigation aspect of the previous feature was one thing that did work well.
If we can separate the tree aspect from the things that didn't work well like the drag and drop I think we can come together in restoring the navigation menu as an efficient way of switching pages without having to use a very odd build section for that interaction.
Thank you for the hard work, this topic has difficult conversations around it because it's so important to user interaction and that's why this was raised in 7.1 by other community members.
This will be the most viewed item. We need the site map restoring to the product menu.
It's important to know this issue was raised by other community members at the 7.1 beta, I just echo the same concerns which I'm sure will come up time and time again.
Ultimately we're here to please site administrators on this issue not community members. The tree navigation aspect of the previous feature was one thing that did work well.
If we can separate the tree aspect from the things that didn't work well like the drag and drop I think we can come together in restoring the navigation menu as an efficient way of switching pages without having to use a very odd build section for that interaction.
Thank you for the hard work, this topic has difficult conversations around it because it's so important to user interaction and that's why this was raised in 7.1 by other community members.
This will be the most viewed item. We need the site map restoring to the product menu.
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